Gay men who *know* they're gay and still marry women
Friday, March 25, 2005
This sounds like the title of an episode of Oprah. In fact, i think i saw that episode.
For while, I thought that this phenomenon was something that only happened to people on TV, that they were somehow fabricated. UNTIL i met this guy. On initial introduction, he was obviously gay. OBVIOUS. He’s a floral designer. Anywho, I asked him to tell me a little about him--and he said, “I’m ENGAGED!” That’s when i got all confused, because something else he said made it clear that he was marrying a woman. Then, for the rest of the day, that was the last thing I heard about his engagement. I didn’t hear her name, how they met, *anything* about her.
I was legitimately confused. Even more so when i asked my friend who introduced him to me about it. Apparently, he came out to a bunch of people the week before he announced his engagement. Yes. He *knows* he’s gay and yet still plans to get married to a woman. WHY?!? What is he hoping to accomplish? It seems like this girl is definitely getting the short end of the stick. What if she actually cares for him in that way (as I hope people who are about to get married should)? I just hope she’s not being taken advantage of in a very non-classical sense of the word.
Anyway, I guess i just think it’s strange that people should choose to use other people as emotional shields for their own insecurities and self-acceptance issues.
Interesting topics you are discussing… First let me briefly excuse my online existense. I am unemployed and bored, and through a random string of links found your site, read a few posts, and am now commenting.
That having been stated I want to say your mid-twenties one is right on on a lot of counts. I especially liked parts where you got preachy, it kinda reminded me of a book I read recently. I won’t comment on everything, but I will say that the reason i have trouble with relationships now, is that I find myself thinking about marriage too much, and every women that is slightly attractive and Christian is a potential. To make matters worse many single women my age are thinking the same thing about men. So there never really is a honest basis for friendship to begin with, just two people feeling eachother out to see if they like what they see. This would all be taken care of if there was a little honesty and the men would act like men and take a little initiative. Well, that is that.
Now the gay thing: I worked with a guy that had a “fiance” when I was in the Marine Corps, only the effeminate demenour of this guys was overpowering, which forced us to seriously question the validity of his claim. It turns out he did have a fiance, but only for show and maybe to appease his guilty conscience. I guess all that to say I think they do it because many of them would rather not be gay and hope to have normal relations with women. There are many people who have starting hitting for the right team again with proper treatment, it is not like homosexuality is genetic or anything.
Well, I will wake up mid-afternoon tomorrow and vaguely remember writing this… have a good life.Posted by James on 03/26 at 02:43 AMHi James,
Nice to have you reading and now commenting!
Out of curiousity, when you say “proper treatment,” what does that entail? I’ve heard of attempts at brainwashing (to a degree), but that, as you can imagine, never works out very well. Do these treatments really work?
Posted by on 03/27 at 08:08 AMHumm, I would say yes, it does work… here is an example. http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=soulfyremac
You can also read a book by Leanne Payne called “Crisis in Masculinity”, which you would find helpful. The part about “attempts at brainwashing” might need a little explaining, can you define brainwashing for me? Mind you, I just got out of the Marine Corps and supposedly, I am brainwashed to “instanly and willingly follow all orders” given me. I think all proper counseling is an attempt to “wash” the brain and clear out wrong-headed thinking and pre-determined misconceptions.Posted by James on 03/27 at 08:38 AMThe the girl is getting “the short end of the stick,” eh? um....no comment :-D
Posted by on 03/27 at 07:41 PM[snort] That Nathan kid is funny.
Here’s some more reductive comments: If the guy is SDA, he wants to be a straight SDA. With family, with wife, without any secrets. I’m sure you can imagine the pressure on a gay Adventist man or woman to do whatever it takes to conform enough to be comfortable in the flock.
But the New York florist puzzles me. Could he be under similar social pressures from some other source? Could he just truly desire the lifelong companionship of this woman (see “Sex & the City” episode with Nathan Lane)? Could he be bisexual, and is planning to remain monogamous? I think a better question is, why would a straight woman marry him?
Posted by on 03/28 at 11:22 AMP.S. James, is your attraction to women genetic? If not, is it nevertheless something deeply ingrained within you? Do you see any compelling reason to try to “brainwash” yourself out of your innate attraction pattern? Ditto for gay people.
Posted by on 03/28 at 11:29 AMif he’s OBVIOUSLY gay, what type of girl would agree to get married to him?
Posted by jay on 03/28 at 01:02 PMShoot, Jay beat me to it. I was just thinking the exact same thing.
People get married for lots of unhealthy reasons and I guess you’ve stumbled upon a set of neurotic needs being met that you just have no empathy for.
If he doesn’t require a woman in his marriage, there’s really no pressure for you to be a real woman. Some women are broken enough to be really drawn to that. It’s very safe, you have to give it that! Safe, but deadly.
Did any of you see DeLovely? VERY worth watching. Kinda explores this topic.
Posted by laura on 03/28 at 08:39 PMOkay, since this is only in the comments section, I can also add that the woman he is marrying is from Japan and, as far as i can discern, may be in need of a visa. I’m guessing it’s an even swap of needs. Regardless, the main point of peculiarity was not that they were swapping “commodities” but rather that he still found the need to deny his own nature even after opening up to a large group of people.
By the way, he converted to SDA very recently (the pastor seemed to have a huge issue with it, but the pastoral staff pushed it through anyway).
Posted by on 03/28 at 08:59 PMKirstin,
I have had a pretty crappy day so I don’t know if my heart is exactly right in responding, but I will try. My point as far as genetics is pretty simple, and is one that many homosexuals willingly accept. It is clear that to say on any forum that homosexuality is genetic (thus predetermed taking away all moral choice) lends to all manner of evil. Then you can say that any bank robber, pedaphile, or rapist is by nature what they are and make it criminal to punish them for thier genetic makeup. And of course we must factor in that there has not ever been a “gay gene” found. But more to the point, the fact that I like women is genetic in the sense that there is nothing against the nature of human makeup, or animal for that matter, involved in the attraction to a women, which naturally culminates in the most utilitarian terms, in the progress of mankind through proper childbirth. It is not genetically unnatural for any creature in nature to have an attraction to the opposite sex, if it by some chance it did happen that way, life would cease to exist. Another part that would lend to the unnatural aspect, whether genetically, medically, or socially is the higher rate of infection where STD’s are concerned (with homosexual men especially), which affects all spheres of existence.
I would also like to point out that having sex solely for pleasure is an entirely human trait, and is the only reason why we do not see homosexual animals. I think the movie “Delovely” does a wonderful job at illustrating the nature of normal homosexual relations in this way. By showing how Cole Porter and his wife Linda had a relationship based solely on the love of Cole Porter. Physical intimacy was vary rare for the couple. While physical intimacy with other men was common for Cole. In the end she loved Cole for his many talents and this is the same thing Cole loved about himself. His whole life was one of indulgence and affluence. We can not take away from his genius, but can say he never loved his wife in anyway that she deserved love, which he himself freely admitted.
One of my roomates brought up the point about bestiality and homosexuality as indicators of a degradating society, as well as many fetishes we see these days. I think that is worth noting but, will not write about it now. The point about pleasure seeking as a human distinctive also needs more attention, but not on here, becuase everything written above is a digression from the main point.
Kat,
I would like to apologize for using your site as a means for an off the subject rant, if it bothers you in anyway I will not do it ever again, or at least make an attempt to stick more to the subject matter. With your added info I guess I can just throw my hands up and shake my head muttering “I just don’t understand...” I understand about the visa bit, and I guess secular marriage so long as it is not done in the name of God is ok, whatever, not like laws are gonna help anything. It is sad she has to marry just to come to America.
I won’t even try to guess what dude is thinking.Posted by James on 03/28 at 11:33 PMmy girlfriend has a gay guinie-pig. does that count?
Posted by Ryan Moore on 03/29 at 08:57 AMHi James, again. I thought your post was very polite and neutral, no sign of a crappy day anywhere. (Likewise, for me, Kat, this doesn’t have to be discussed here.)
I think that you’re arguing, though, that the majority rules. Because most people are straight, being straight is normal, thus natural, thus good. Any deviation from this is bad.
Well that doesn’t make sense to me. It’s true the homosexual relationships won’t result in children without outside help, but I wouldn’t consider having children to be morally superior than not having them. Especially when so many more people are straight (thus likely to reproduce) than gay, anyways. The population levels of humans are in good shape, contraception and homosexuality notwithstanding.
Now this might surprise you, but I actually agree with you that the nature of being a pedophile is similar to the nature of being gay - and being straight. But what do pedophiles have that gay and straight non-pedophiles don’t have? Victims. Gay people don’t hurt anybody. Their relationships are fundamentally no different than straight relationships. (unfortunately, in some cases. Gay domestic violence is on the rise, I read recently.) My point is, the electroshock therapy and the self-denial that sometimes goes into the “brainwashing” you describe might be appropriate for pedophiles, because they hurt people, and young people at that. I do not think it is appropriate for non-harmful people who simply vary from the norm. In those cases, the cure is worse than the disease.
To respond to your final points:
1. No straight gene has been found, either. And yet, I’d be bummed if someone told me I was degenerate because I was attracted to men, and that my salvation depended on squashing that deep-seated attraction.
2. HIV is now overwhelming transmitted through heterosexual sex - again unfortunately, since women are much more able to receive than transmit the virus. Lesbians have never had a high prevalence of HIV.
3. It is my understanding that there are homosexual animals, but I have never actually researched this.If you’d like to discuss this more apart from Kathy’s blog, my email is . It’s been a pleasure.
Posted by on 03/29 at 10:00 AMI am happy to host any such discussion on this site. :D I love the fact that people are interacting with one another. Please continue or even start any new debate you wish (as long as the discussion is not a thinly guised attempt at irrationally berating people or groups). Enjoy!
Posted by on 03/29 at 11:19 AMhttp://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=23
sums up my opinion on this topic. pretty well actually.
Posted by Ryan Moore on 03/30 at 02:58 AM