The Biggest Industry
Wednesday, February 16, 2005
What is the biggest industry? Porn. Yes, you read that right, PORN.
So maybe i have my stats off, by i know it’s up there when it comes to money-making industries. By the way, if you’re faint of heart, i suggest you stop reading here. But back to the rant at hand…
So i was at my friends apartment and picked up an issue of Stuff, a definite guy-demographic magazine. I ran across an article about this woman who was making observations about being an extra on a porn set. Out of morbid curiousity (and granted, this was very unwise), i read through that article. While there was nothing particularly offensive (just generally so), something about it triggered a realization that i HATE the porn industry.
I don’t just mean dislike. I mean HATE.
(And here’s where i really go off...)
How can they build one of the biggest money-making industries based on the subjugation and objectification of women!?! How can they ignore the immense WRONGNESS about perpetuating the idea that women are only good for the purpose of sex? And of course, this is where someone chimes in, “But the women who are in the movies *want* to be filmed and treated that way. It’s all consensual, so it’s ok.” Fine fine fine. Yes, THEY may not have a problem with or may even like being treated that way, but I DON’T. Those women can’t deny the fact that their participation in that media affects other women in ways that they DO NO WANT. What does it say to men? It says, “It’s ok to treat women as objects. In fact, they like it! All women are like this.” When men say crass comments to women about the way they look or what they want to do to them, they’re responding to what porn has taught them--it’s ok because she’s just a piece of meat. Oh and she probably secretly wants it.
By the way, this isn’t just porn. In fact, it seems that most media today portray this message. Advertising exploits it. I’m getting really sick of it.
If i could, i would single-handedly bring down the porn empire. I would apologize for this subject, but i’m just too pissed to be apologetic right now.
Hi Kat,
I don’t know what to say but that porn is an addiction. For no other reason is it so successful. It makes victims of all in its path, both those in the pictures and those who crave the pictures like heroin… even though most consumers know at the beginning that it’s wrong and destroys them (not to mention the ones they’re looking at), they become addicts until their whole world is seen through porn fantasy eyes, and not only can they not see women normally, but they don’t know how to love either.
Here’s an interesting site geared at helping break addictions to porn: http://www.xxxchurch.com/
Posted by Ramone on 02/16 at 11:35 PMKat,
you don’t need to apologize for wanting women to be more than just a good f*ck. I thought I’d use really straightforward language to give me more courage to express this kind of stuff.
And your heart should cry out for all the men this stuff spiritually kills.
Pardon the pun, but porn is f’ing evil.
Posted by les on 02/17 at 04:40 AMThanks guys...it’s really good to hear from you.
Posted by on 02/17 at 08:30 AMthis is the reason porn is so addicting in this country. not because it’s like heroin, not because it’s evil. it’s because our culture (american’s) demonize the nude form. it’s like a guilty pleasure. Like the catholics in the middle ages who went around putting fig leaves on all the greek/roman and even renaissance statues. They have boxes of of genitalia belonging to sculptures because religion has taught us from childhood that it’s shameful to look at a nude form, or it’s someting you should share with the one you marry. In no other country (european country) is porn as addictive as it is here. Could it be that this is because they have a more lax social sigma attached to nudity? possibly. I’m not an expert. I don’t think porn is evil. I do however think it’s a vice. just as gambleing or drinking, or anything else. If done in excess anything can be a vice (and yes i mean anything). Just some are more socially acceptable than others.
Now, is porn something that degrades women? most likely. Does every man view a woman as an object after viewing porn? not really. do most men view women as an object without the use or porn? more than likely. It’s not because of porn that the female is objectified in american culture. It goes back to puritan mindset we’ve all grew up with. Do i condone porn? no. Do i mind that it’s out there? not really.
Now, how do we fix it all? i don’t know. Is it a good thing that we exploit women for advertising? no. i’m probably more upset that that because it is more out in public than porn is. Must I suffer through feminine hygene commercials? (sorry off the subject, but there are a lot when i watch TV)
Ok, i’m done ranting now.
Posted by Ryan Moore on 02/19 at 12:24 AMRyan, I live in Japan and while you might think that guys here (in “other countries") are not as addicted to porn in the puritan-based culture of America, wives here also tend to think that it’s normal for men to go look at naked dancing women and have an affair once in awhile.
I don’t know about you, but that makes me mad.
Most rapes here go unreported. I knew someone who was raped here and went to the police for help. The police chief advised her not to bear the shame of being exposed by asking for the man’s arrest. Then the chief hit on her himself. The chief kept the sick pictures that the rapist made of her. This too went unreported.
Before you blast the “repression” of America, take a good damn look outside.
Posted by Ramone on 02/19 at 01:51 AMHi Ryan,
I agree with you that the nude form has been “demonized” here in the US. And that’s a shame.
But, and let’s be honest here, we’re not talking about people uh, doing the deed,” to the famous Venus painting, the Statute of David, or many of the other fine nude Greek/Roman, etc… art pieces.
I don’t think most men who are addicated to porn have those things stuffed under their bed or in the hard drive.
What we have is much worse. If I pulled out the latest issue of Hustler and tried to convince you that this is okay art in the same vein as The David, well… that’s just absurd.
But the thing is, porn addiction is not about nudity or even sexuality. Its about power. Porn is addictive because its so easy for a man to feel powerful. And its a false sense of power because, uh, doing the deed, doesn’t make a man powerful. In fact, it does the opposite. People who are addicted to porn use porn to feel powerful instead of actually being powerful in a situation.
For example, did the boss yell at you? Makes you feel weak uh. Let’s go do some porn. In this way its much the same as any other addiction. In opinion its much more powerful because its so easy to hide this addiction. So by the time the issue comes to the surface, the damage its done to the person is usually quite extensive.
This isn’t just my opinion. Its based on research. AA acknowledges that this is the problem.
So when you go to other countries and see lots o’ nudity don’t think that those men also don’t have power issues. Japan, as Romane points it, is a good example.
Posted by Les on 02/19 at 06:10 AMAll i’m saying is porn in and of itself, isn’t evil. it’s what’s done with it that gives it the negative connotation.
i agree with ramone unreported rap is a bad thing. but is that the porn’s fault? no. is it because the man had some sort of imbalance there to begin with? yes.
your guys same argument can be applied to violence in video games. for instance. in the majority of people who play the grand theft auto series, do they then go out and start shooting people and running away from police? no, of course not. do a small percentage? yes. but not because of the video games. it’s because of who that person is. what choices they make.
Now, do i think it’s a good that that women in japan think it’s ok for men to have an affair? no, i think that’s wrong. if you are in a relationship you should be true to that person. if you promise that your wife/girlfriend (i think this extends to girlfriends) is the only one you are having sexual relations with, then that’s what you should do.
now this brings up another question, is porn infadelity? yes, i know what the bible says. if you even imagine it, then you’ve done it. now, do i think it is? it depends. i know that’s a lame answer, but it does. do you use the porn as a small fantasy? or do you actually wish you were there with that person over who you have promised your genatalia to? maybe i’m just bringing up more .
the addiction itself is bad, not the medium in which it manifest’s itself. like video games, or for instance television, or smoking or food, or gambling, or even like, religious addiction. do we ever hear of it? yes, religious zealot’s and the sort. it’s not called religious anon. because everyone thinks it’s a good thing to go to church. but is it? is the meeting of a large group of people just to reinforce their common beliefs a good thing? sure it makes people feel better about themselves. and gives them hope for the future. but to me it’s a stagnation of ideas. i much prefer the developing of ideas. Mostly because you can modify your idea’s.
woah got off topic there. sorry about that.
porn = not evil
addiction = evilthat pretty much sums it up on my end.
-ryan
PS oh and ramone, i put in ()’s european countries, because i know very little about japanese culture. but thanks for the info. i’ll have to look more into it.
Posted by Ryan Moore on 02/19 at 07:49 PMoh ya, now back to making levels for a violent video game.
Posted by Ryan Moore on 02/19 at 07:59 PMThe argument is like what we say about smoking, Ryan. It poisons your body. Sure, not everyone is addicted to it. But the nature of it is the same, it pollutes your lungs.
I cited the specific instance in Japan as an illustration of what *often* happens unreported. It’s not the only case at all. I am saying, Ryan, that the way things turned out is the *norm* here. Not that that one guy was “imbalanced”, but that the whole system here is imbalanced.
You can read about this kind of stuff all the time on the Mainichi Shimbun newspaper. Some judge is always getting caught having sex with a 14-year-old girl. It’s easy to say that these “individuals” are imbalanced, but it’s harder to admit there is a common denominator: that the image of women here is exploited and they are often viewed as meat.
I get tired of going to an innocent-looking phone booth to make a call, only to find out that it is plastered on the inside with dozens of ad stickers of young naked women.
Or seeing shows on TV where girls try to confront their boyfriends when they’ve cheated, only for the guy to turn it back on the girl and make her feel guilty for prying in his business.
Yoko’s former boss (a rich lady) once laughed about the red light districts of Osaka saying how men need that once in awhile and its normal.
Porn is simply visual prostitution. Naked intimacy is a gift from God that man & woman can have together.
Think of how C.S. Lewis put it: if you saw someone looking at pictures of food just so his mouth could water, wouldn’t you think him a bit strange? Why do we do that with pictures of naked women? Isn’t that also strange?
I’m all for personal choices and for acknowledging that some things (like music) are not inherently evil. But Ryan, porn is not a static thing. It is something that is created from abuse. It is created from objectifying women, power fantasies in men, and to reap money off of peoples’ addictions.
I return to Japan as an example because porn is so widely distributed and largely unregulated here. You can find its magazines in the same rack as Seventeen here. Some critics (like Roger Ebert whom I respect) talk about the freedom of nudity here in Japan and how anime characters run around topless in some movies, thinking that it’s some sign of open-mindedness apart from the western paradigm. At the same time, they don’t live here and see the established “schoolgirl” fetish and see guys reading nude comics on the train. Yes, guys often read pornographic comics on the train while ladies sit next to them or while you stand cramped & unable to escape in front of them. It’s not a sign of freedom, but a sign of a sickness that is being perpetually incubated. And because of the way women have been held down here, they’re afraid of expressing their disgust at it. So they either accept it or ignore it.
Sure, not every one of these guys has affairs. Sure, not all of them get sexually violent. At the same time, most of them are very detached. They don’t say “I love you” to their wives except on TV. Foreign women usually don’t like Japanese men. But Japanese women usually like American, Aussie, Kiwi & British men because they treat women with more respect and are more sensitive to their needs. Is porn the sole reason? Of course not. But it is certainly a contributor. It didn’t create the wrong attitudes towards women. But it itself is a product of those bad attitutes towards women, and in turn it feeds and perpetuates them.
Posted by Ramone on 02/19 at 08:47 PMPORN. IS. EVIL.
Stop fooling yourself.
Posted by laura on 02/19 at 09:20 PMI think I’ll add in that I do love the nude human form in an artistic way. My favorite art class was at Montgomery Community College in Maryland, where we did figure drawings of nude models. It was wonderful (although I think I freaked out Kat with a few of my pics, haha) to draw them.
But just like Les said, there is a clear difference between that and porn. We didn’t draw that stuff to get off on it. They weren’t drawn to be racey or to make your heart skip a beat. They were done because the human body is beautiful and is a work of art itself.
This is the difference between art & porn. Art celebrates what God created, but porn exists to tease you into private orgasm. It’s there so you can imagine yourself in that situation, or to aid your own fantasization of someone you like gratifying your sexual desire.
For an example of this, Ryan, have you ever talked to someone who wasn’t listening? Like, for example, someone who assumed you were racist from the very beginning. Someone who stereotyped you right from the get-go as no different from country-hicks ready to turn KKK. Wouldn’t they upset you? Wouldn’t it suck to be labeled that way? To be viewed by your skin color instead of by what you say and who you really are inside? Wouldn’t it suck if they didn’t give a damn who you were inside?
Now think of how normal women feel when they’re seen as sex objects by men. You don’t know the girl in the picture. But you make her yours and imagine her gratifying you. You don’t give a damn who she is. Or even worse, maybe you think of someone you do know. But you don’t care to get to know her and let her give her love how she chooses. Instead you make your own mental image of her bowing to your wishes and turning you on. It’s not *her* ... you just use her.
The best moments I have with my wife are when I realize that my image of her is insufficient. I have my own mental idea of who she is, and I think she’ll answer a certain way when I say something. But the best moments, Ryan, are when I’m wrong. When my own mental image is shattered by her reality. I can’t describe how wonderful this is. I want to respect her and who she really is. I want to have my idea of her shattered by her reality. And it’s so wonderful to be loved by her. She doesn’t love her image of me. I’m not a pet, not a toy, not a cardboard cutout. It’s great and I only know the mere beginning of all this kind of love. I know it gets deeper and even more blissful.
Stripteas masturbatory fantasy is not only a product of abusive attitudes & disrespect, but it is also the cheapest imitation possible of true love and sacred eroticism.
Posted by Ramone on 02/19 at 09:23 PMthis sums up my opinion pretty well.
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=330
Posted by Ryan Moore on 02/20 at 01:11 AMOkay, I don’t want to get into a huge back and forth over this thing, because it doesn’t matter that much to me or Shawna. But lemme give you a picture of what’s going on over here.
Right now, I’m sitting in the bathroom with Shawna, who is fixing her hair in the mirror. We’re getting ready to go out soon. I have her laptop in here, and we were reading Kat’s website together. Oh, and oops, Shawna also happens to be topless right now. Wait; does that make this little scene pornographic? If her nudity makes me lust after her, is it wrong? And if it’s “right”, is it only “right” because she happens to be my wife-to-be?
And here’s where Shawna and I think much of what has been mentioned is a bit over the top: love and lust are not mutually exclusive. We have no interest in dictating to any of you married couples what does it for you and turns you both on… but we also see no flaw in sexual hunger for each other. And yes, even if that sexual hunger comes through a visual medium.
Porn is distilled lust. It’s not a power trip, it’s not objectification, it is an industry that is creating a product based off of a human appetite. Like every other industry that does this (especially the fast food industry), the side effects of it’s abuse are commonly not good, much like eating Cheerios all day every day, which may claim they’re healthy for your heart, will still cause fattness in excess. I’m not advocating porn. I really don’t care that much. I think that many of the flaws that you are pointing to porn as the cause are flaws that are inherent in most of our societies for a plethora of reasons. Porn simply capitalizes on them.
Ramone. I dig that you love your wife deepest when you realize she is more then your mental perception of her. But I will also find no flaw in any husband that lusts for his wife because of her visual appeal that she freely gives him.
Shawna and I both totally agree with Ryan. Good job, Ryan.
-Stephan and Shawna
Posted by on 03/05 at 04:54 PMHi Stephen & Shawna,
You’re right that there is a healthy kind of lust for one another ... the Greeks called it “eros” ... there is a true erotic joy in loving what God has made. At the same time, this is meant to coincide with intimacy and dedication, not to be spread around and prostituted.
The problem is when we separate physical eros from emotional intimacy and committed dependency. When you make love, you’re opening yourself to the other person, and they are opening themselves to you. It is truly spiritual, the closest kind of unification we can know. When we begin to value each other based only on physical union (at the expense of emotional & committed union), that is when our love for each other is purely selfish. Our lust for each other is not for each other, but just for our own sexual “high”. The other person becomes a piece of meat to satisfy us.
This is what the porn industry does. It supplies the meat.
Goodness, you two, I don’t know you but it sounds like you love each other, and I’m happy for you. But it is an odd stretch of things to compare your love to pornography. Yes, both involve physical eroticism, but the difference is as night and day --- that is, unless I’m mistaken and you two don’t care to be intimate with each other emotionally or committed to each other. But I believe that your union is a lot deeper than a mere physical one.
Again, you’re right that it’s a natural human lust that pornography is capitalizing on. Or rather, exploiting. In that sense, maybe you can understand that it is not much different than narcotics. The users get their high, and the pushers get rich off of it. The more addicts the pushers make, the richer they get.
Objectification. Somehow we need to deconstruct that word to really get its impact: it means that we see something as a mere object. Although we have a genuine sexual hunger, porn *does* have us see women as objects instead of as people --- real people, people with minds, hearts, cares, griefs, desires and dreams.
Remember how Martin Luther King Jr. said that he dreamed his children would one day be judged by the content of their character instead of by the color of their skin? I look white, and I don’t know what it’s like to be eyed by the police like some of my black friends know. I don’t know how bad that feels. In the same way, I’m a man and I don’t know what it’s like to be looked at like a piece of meat. No one’s ever treated me that way or wolf-whistled at me, or asked me if my legs go all the way up. But dammit, please care about women who have experienced these things and justifiably rant when they are treated that way, or see others being treated that way. Some women shrug it off, but others will not sit idly by while the abuse continues. So they rant. They dream that one day women will not be looked at like objects.
Yes, there is a healthy sexual hunger. There is also an emotional hunger. Separate them and you get objectification. Stop viewing people as *real people*, view them by the color of their skin or by whether they have breasts and round hips, and you’re doing no better than that which Martin Luther King Jr. lashed out against.
Maybe this sounds extreme, but really put yourself in another’s shoes, see it from the victim’s perspective, and you’ll understand it’s not much of a stretch at all.
Finally, hunger is made for food. You get physically hungry so that you can eat. Sexual & emotional hunger are the same way. We are created for intimacy, both emotional and physical. The hunger is made to be satisfied—not teased endlessly or fulfilled by photos. Your emotional and sexual hunger is meant to be filled by another real person, just as you yourself are not a photo, you are a real person. You are made for another real person and nothing less. Teasing yourself and pretending to satisfy your real hunger with that which is not a real person—that is not only an insult to the person you’re objectifying, but it is an insult to you. You deserve better, even if you’re not wise enough to see it.
As C.S. Lewis said, what would you think if you saw someone sneaking around with a magazine showing luscious pictures of food, peeking at it to salivate once in awhile, but never eating?
Wouldn’t you think that odd?
Sexual hunger is made for sex ... for intimate union of one real person and another real person. And that union is not meant to be isolated from the emotional hunger our souls have.
Bless you both as you enjoy uniting with each other in all the ways God created for you.
Ramone
Posted by Ramone on 03/05 at 08:18 PMWow. You guys have a lot to say.
From what i can tell, it seems that one of the main questions is whether or not something can be inherently evil. If not that, can things be inherently addictive? And is addiction necessarily bad? Is there ever an instance when addiction is a positive thing?
Just more questions to add to the fire.
Posted by on 03/05 at 10:09 PMThere was a guy who would hang out with my friends and I on Thursday nights, and when he was around we all kind of really opened up to each other, shared a lot, and had a lot of fun together. We all really grew to love each other and lean on each other when he was there. He’s been the only good addiction in my life. ^_^ Somehow, He’s addicted to me, too, and addicted to you.
Anti-spam word for this post: “wanted” ^_^
Posted by Ramone on 03/06 at 06:52 AMI think physical lust is a healthy thing in any relationship. As for addiction, I’ve always thought that the addiction was the evil thing, but what about if you’re addicted to a person. Their very presance is intoxicating. What if you feel that way for each other? Is that codependancy? If you want to spend every waking moment with that person?
And to put an answer out there for your question Kat, I don’t think things are inherently addictive, just as i don’t think things are inherently evil. It’s the value we associate to them that causes it to be that way. Addiction is basically the feeling you get when mentally digesting something. For instance. the over release of dopamine causes a feeling of euphoria, The most popular drug that does this is Extascy. People have an addiction with this. Now i guess the question is, do people cause this response as well? I think so. If the brain releases chemicals that give you pleasure around that person, and you like that feeling of pleasure, are you addicted to that person? and if so, is THAT addiction good?
again more questions than answers i guess. all i know is i’ve been “addicted” to my girlfriend since i met her.
Posted by Ryan Moore on 03/09 at 10:00 AMPorn is a cheap shot for a rant, Kat. Next it’ll be breast implants (again). You can borrow my “North Carolina truck drivers (semi and regular)” if you like. I used to think that my John Kerry sticker was antagonizing them, but no, they’re assholes to everyone. C’mon… isn’t there anything that’s bugging you? ANYTHING? <poke poke>
Posted by on 03/15 at 09:14 PM